Wikihack:Ask an expert/Archive4
NetHack can be a monstrously complicated game, so it's not unnatural to seek help from time to time. Conventional sources of wisdom are: * The Oracle - the intended source of information for unspoiled players. * rec.games.roguelike.nethack * #nethack on irc.freenode.net Additionally, a number of knowledgable players are active on this wiki, so feel free to ask a question below and somebody is sure to answer it eventually. Long discussions are probably more suited to the newsgroup. Start a new section for each question, as in the example below. Wish in the first turn How to obtain a wish in a very first turn? It just happened to me: i started as a Wizard, checked inventory, quaffed potion of extra healing for more HP and... it was smoky! I got a wish! Are there OTHER possibilities for wish in a first turn? 21:10, 24 May 2008 (UTC) :That seems to be the only one. You'll never start with a wand of wishing or a magic lamp. You might find a wand of wishing on level 1, but it'd take you a turn to pick it up and another to zap it. :Oh, and you've spoken aloud of your good fortune. Better pray thus to the Random Number God: "There is no god but the RNG, and Izchak is the prophet of the RNG." :Otherwise, you're gonna end up meeting a really nasty YASD. ☺--Ray Chason 21:43, 24 May 2008 (UTC) ::Well, and i did, as usual :-) If we speak about luck: what are the chances, that starting as wizard you got a smoky potion in your inventory and that you will get a wish in the first turn? I mean - is it really that rare? 21:41, 26 May 2008 (UTC) :::Well, let's see...(dives into the source) :::You start with three potions. All, any or none may be smoky. There are 26 potion descriptions, and smoky is just one. We take these as tree independent possibilities (since you may get two or even three instances of a smoky potion), and get the odds of a smoky potion: ::: 1 - ( 1 - \frac{1}{26} )^{3} = \frac{1951}{17576} \approx 0.111 . :::I can't quite nail down where in the code the starting potions might or might not be marked as blessed, so I'm going to ignore that possibility for now. We'll assume the potion is uncursed. You check your inventory and determine that you have a smoky potion, and you try for a wish even though it is a potion of confusion. Your chance of getting a djinni is 1 in 13, since no djinn have been created, and he has a 1 in 5 chance of granting a wish. :::We now arrive at last at an approximate answer: ::: \frac{1951}{17576} * \frac{1}{13} * \frac{1}{5} = \frac{1951}{1142440} \approx 0.00171 . :::So no, that isn't an especially common event.--Ray Chason 22:43, 26 May 2008 (UTC) Rogue level Hey, it's the guy from the previous question! Anyway, new valk, this time things got better, beat Sokoban, cleared the mines, and found my quest teleport (can't enter though, since only level 13). So, now I managed to find the entrance to the Rogue level. My question is - should I bother going in there and exploring it, or just try to find the stairs to the next dungeon level and keep smashing stuff until I can go on on my Quest? Which would you recomend. Also would I need some special intrinsics or items I better have if going in there?--87.120.232.236 21:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC) :There are no items or intrinsics needed in the Rogue level that aren't similarly valuable above or below it. The biggie is that monsters don't leave corpses, so if you meet a wraith, lure it off-level before killing it. (OTOH one way to kill a troll so that it stays dead is to lure it to the Rogue level.)--Ray Chason 22:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC) ::Also, the only way down is through the Rogue level. Note that stairs are represented by the % glyph, so the down-stair is the % you didn't enter on. --Andronikus 02:04, 19 April 2008 (UTC) :::Wait, wait, wait, I actually have to pass trough the level in order to progress? Guess I should stop searching for the stairs down then. --87.120.232.236 19:43, 19 April 2008 (UTC) Sacrificing and artifacts Ok, this is like the 4th time I've ever made it to Minetown, so just go easy on me. Anyway, I am playing a Valkyrie in explorer mode, since I got sick of dying by suddely getting swarmed by 6+ monsters. Anyway, I managed to actaully get to Minetown without dying (Just my luck huh?) so now I'm doing a prolonged camping in there, gathering items, selling loot and doing offerings. So here's the thing. I must have sacrificed..what 30 or so corpses so far, in which we have 2 wood elves, tons of Uruk Hai, 2 Ogres, a yeti and other such stuff. Every time the offer gets accepted and I have yet to get even Mjolnir. I've had the "four leaf clover" message several times already, so my luck is ok. I haven't prayed in ages, so that's ok too...yet I still can't seem to get the damn hammer already. So is there something I'm missing or am I just having horribly bad luck (which won't be the first time either..). Thank you in advance.--87.120.237.119 21:40, 14 April 2008 (UTC) :I feel for you. It's just bad luck, I'm afraid. We call it the wrath of the Random Number Generator - some games you will find a wand of wishing in the first room in a game, others will see you without a gift from your g-d all the way to the Castle. Keep at it! -- Kalon 23:10, 14 April 2008 (UTC) ::Yeah I know what you mean. On another game I got a wish from a water demon from a fountain on the second dungeon level (I drank from the fountain just...for the heck of it). Also, after several more corpses sacrificed the RNG Gods decided to smile uppon me and finally gave me Mjolnir. On the second sacrifice after that I even got Trollsbane. Maybe they are trying to make up for making me wait so long? --87.120.237.119 06:58, 15 April 2008 (UTC) Tracking a game How do people track their games? Do they just #name items to help identify things? What about where stashes are at, or what intrinsics you have? I'd be interested in something to help with that, but I'm not sure what to look for... --24.154.148.70 20:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC) :I'll #name items when I know what they are but I rarely bother with recording locations of branches or intrinsics. I don't create stashes at all so that's not a problem for me. However, if you find yourself wanting something to help you keep track of your games you may find this useful http://sartak.katron.org/nh/notekeeper.pl ContraDuck 02:01, 21 February 2008 (UTC) Excalibur for Samurai Does dipping a katana in a fountain work for getting Excalibur? If not, what's the best way to get a long sword? :Katanas can't be dipped for Excalibur. Long swords are not that uncommon: you may get one at random, or you may kill a barrow wight.--Ray Chason 01:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC) Food taste Does the taste of food do anything? 24.4.155.160 03:04, 8 July 2007 (UTC) :It does nothing to you, it's just that raw meat "tastes terrible" if you're not a carnivore and plant-based foods "taste terrible" if you're not an herbivore -- try eating that corpse when polymorphed into a dragon or other predatory animal, for example. There is a consequence for your pet, however -- it will turn up its nose at anything that "tastes terrible" unless it is famished.--Ray Chason 17:15, 8 July 2007 (UTC) ::What about "Blecch! Rotten food!"? I found the line in eat.c,, but couldn't make heads or tails of it. Does rotten food give any nutrition? (In other words, is it worth finishing eating it?). --Snicker 06:50, 30 July 2007 (UTC) :::Rotten food is less nourishing than non-rotten. Also, a rotten wraith corpse will disintegrate and not level you up. There are of course the other well-known ill effects.--Ray Chason 14:10, 30 July 2007 (UTC) Fruit juice What's fruit juice good for? 24.4.155.160 21:48, 3 July 2007 (UTC) :In itself, fruit juice is good for a little nutrition and not much else. But a potion that "tastes like fruit juice" may in fact be the potion of see invisible. Furthermore, dipping a unicorn horn into a potion of sickness turns the potion to fruit juice, identifying both potions; and dipping an amethyst stone into a potion of booze turns the potion to fruit juice, identifying both potions and also the stone.--Ray Chason 18:50, 4 July 2007 (UTC) OK, thanks. 24.4.155.160 02:57, 8 July 2007 (UTC) :I find that dipping large stacks into a fountain to create potions of water is also quite useful. Do I really need magic resistance? So I've got reflection, and I keep reading that I need magic resistance, but I can't figure out exactly why. Is it just to avoid polymorph and teleport traps? --Beefnut 05:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC) *Not only that, but several monsters, mainly late game, like to cast spells. Some of the worse ones include destroy armor, which can leave you very vulnerable very fast, and touch of death, which outright kills you. Magic resistance guards against these. Lotte 12:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC) It seems he never met those Master and Arch Liches and good old Rodney. Even with magic resistance it can hurt being the target of one of those spells they cast at you.Jin Tsu *Getting MR in some form is a more pressing issue than reflection. Besides the various instadeath attacks, it will also protect against polymorph traps, which will trash your armor. I'm very happy if I can get MR somehow before Dlvl 8 (which is where polytraps start appearing). --omniscientist Where can I find candles? I'm standing on the vibrating square and haven't got any candles. What can I do? --Jayt 22:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC) :You can go back to Izchak's shop in Minetown to buy some, or in the rare event that there aren't enough there, you can wish for them (wishing for 7 candles always gives 7). Additionally, candles are non-magical, so polypiling non-magical tools should yield some. --Jayt 22:23, 22 June 2006 (UTC) Corpse Weights in code In the Source Code what files define the corpse weights? -- PraetorFenix 08:43, 25 June 2006 (UTC) :They're in monst.c#line101. The first number in that line says giant ants (and also their corpses) have weight 10. --Jayt 18:04, 25 June 2006 (UTC) artifact that defends against lycanthropy what is the artifact that defends against lycanthrophy? eat.c#line976 -- PraetorFenix 04:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC) :It's Werebane, though lycanthropy isn't strictly the same thing as Disease. --Jayt 09:59, 29 June 2006 (UTC) :: Sliming and stoning (which I added) might not be disease either. --Kernigh 00:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC) References blessing a spellbook what does blessing a spellbook do? i.e making it blessed not just uncursed does it improve the chances of learning the spell or the chances of casting the spell? -- PraetorFenix 04:56, 29 June 2006 (UTC) :It improves your chance of successfully reading it to 100%, regardless of intelligence, level, or anything else. Reading a difficult spellbook will still take time though. --Jayt 09:55, 29 June 2006 (UTC) Help excuse me, i have no idea what this wiki does, and no sane way to find out. :It's a wiki about a game called NetHack. Wikihack:About is a good starting point. --Jayt 18:08, 12 July 2006 (UTC) Other ways to detect portals So what other ways are there to detect the portals on the elemental planes but a confused scroll of gold detection? --ZeroOne 18:27, 20 July 2006 (UTC) :You can apply a crystal ball to look for the "^" symbol, or you can wield the Amulet of Yendor - it gets hotter/colder as you move towards/away from the portal. On the Plane of Fire, you can usually just wander around for a few dozen turns and some random monster will walk into the portal, locating it for you. This works on the Plane of Air too, but might be more dangerous with all those air elementals. --Jayt 22:12, 20 July 2006 (UTC) Category:Strategy Category:Wikihack ::OK... It's just that crystal balls are rare and rather heavy, and I prefer wearing an amulet of life saving. I was hoping I could use confused spell(book) of detect treasure, or maybe potions of object detection... But oh well, I just wished for a magic marker and wrote those scrolls. And ascended the rogue! --ZeroOne 03:18, 21 July 2006 (UTC) :::Congrats! :-) You don't have to wear the AoY - just wield it (although being without a weapon is arguably worse than being without an amulet of life saving...) --Jayt 09:32, 21 July 2006 (UTC) Wand of secret door detection works well also. 69.72.41.162 14:25, 28 May 2007 (UTC) Cursed +127 SDSM Is a cursed +127 SDSM a good thing or a bad thing? What does it do? :It's a very good thing. It lowers your AC by 136 points. You're not likely to see it outside wizard mode though. --Jayt 12:02, 10 August 2006 (UTC) ::But I thought cursed items never could have positive numbers for enhancements... --SuperNoob 13:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC) :::Cursed items are generally not generated with a positive enchantment. A cursed +127 SDSM could have been made by enchanting an SDSM to +127, then having it become cursed. --Eidolos 16:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC) ::::I suppose it is possible to get a +127 SDSM in a normal game... but (if I'm reading read.c correctly), you have to beat a 1 in (this has been deleted beacuse it triggerd the spam filter, but trust me, it's a whole lot--Edrobot 19:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC)) ::::chance. That's not an accurate calculation; your actual odds will be worse. Much easier to stick to pudding farming for protection :-) --Jayt 16:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC) Autopickup and gold pieces I've been fooling around with the autopickup exceptions, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to make it so that I always pick up gold pieces. "$!/="+? Good luck! --Eidolos 04:07, 27 August 2006 (UTC) Aggravate monster and stealth? I am playing SLASH'EM 0.0.7E7F2. I ate a large cat (stupid mistake, I should not eat corpses while hallucinating) and now have aggravate monster as an intrinsic. I later found elven boots, so now I have stealth. How do aggravate monster and stealth interact? Should I be worried? --Kernigh 00:42, 3 September 2006 (UTC) :From a cursory glance at the NetHack source, it seems like aggravate monster completely nullifies the effects of stealth. See the big comment and code of monmove.c#disturb. Aggravate monster has additional bad effects, like making your pet dog become untame faster. Whether it's at all the same for SLASH'EM is anyone's guess. :) --Eidolos 01:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC) ::The code you point to seems to say the opposite -- ignoring other factors it says if (!stealth && AggMon) then wake up?-- 4.246.45.192 01:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC) :::Good point. Sorry Kernigh! --Eidolos 05:11, 3 September 2006 (UTC) :::: The code in SLASH'EM is . This is not the part of the code that I am familiar with, but now that you suggest it, the code does look like (!stealth && AggMon). I guess that I should worry about my pets, then. I have no idea what happened to my pet dog Fido, maybe it went untame and my pet horse killed it while I was not looking? I tried my magic whistle on a few different levels. --Kernigh 18:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC) How do I kill/avoid archons? On the Elemental Plane of Air I'll get swamped by summoned monsters from archons, such that in a few moves practically the whole level is filled with all the monsters I havn't genocided (including more archons). How do I deal(kill/avoid) with archons on this level? The closest I've come to getting to the portal was by using many scrolls of taming while confused, but I was hopelessly bogged down in monsters... Chris. 14 Sept 2006 :Archons shouldn't summon other archons, but a few relevant tactics for summoning storms are: :* If you can get close to the archon, kill or cancel it before anything else :* Use conflict :* Move fast; don't stop to kill anything unless you have to :* Avoid the archon - it will only summon monsters around itself :* Be extremely tough and dangerous, then muscle your way through the crowd! :--Jayt 21:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC) ::I'd like to second Jayt's second and third points. Using a conflict makes the monsters focus on each other and you can sneak between them. You must also be very fast and never burdened on the elemental planes. Just locate the portal and run for it. Being invisible is also useful and displacement will help you too. --ZeroOne 21:27, 14 September 2006 (UTC) :::Thanks for the advice, just to follow up - I am running NH v.343 on Pocket PC and Archons ARE being summoned (big problem), so even if I run up and kill'em quick in 3-4 hits it will still summon at least one other archon (not to mention the plethora of other critters. Conflict doesn't seem effective since they (multiple archons) are also casting 'monsters aware of your presence' spells so they all go back to wailing on me. I'll have to try wands of teleport and avoidance... That or change the version I'm playing. Chris. 15 Sept 2006 ::::While I'm not familiar with that particular port, I'd have to say that it's probably the same game, just with a different interface. Meaning the mechanics are the same and all. Anyway, according to J. Ali Harlow's Monster Manual, Archons have 80 MR.. which means that conflict is, on average, only going to affect them every one in five turns. Conflict is more for the critters they summon. In any case, I can't stress how important evasion and wands of teleport are on the Planes. Good luck! --Eidolos 20:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC) Feeling of inadequacy message? I've just started NetHack last night, and found something odd that, as far as I could tell, is not addressed here or in any easily found spoilers. I was Chaotic and found a Chaotic altar really early, like on the 2nd or 3rd level down. I figured it'd be a good chance to play w/ praying and offering. I offered some corpses, and they were consumed by fire, but then the message said that I "had a feeling of inadequacy". Does anyone know what that means? Am I too piddly to have offerings do anything at that level? :You only have feelings of inadequacy if your deity is angry with you and the corpse you're sacrificing is not enough to mollify him. Did you ever get a message that " is displeased."? Usually it's something obvious; things that anger deities include praying too soon, killing a pet, and sacrificing a coaligned unicorn. To mollify him you'll need to sacrifice big corpses (especially since you're chaotic; nonchaotic deities are easier to mollify). See the How to Appease an Angry God spoiler. --Eidolos 23:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC) ::Also (and this is unfortunate), you probably won't find big enough corpses for awhile - it goes by monster level. Chaotics have it even harder, as that list shows. Lotte 02:01, 11 November 2006 (UTC) Basic questions Hello :) Been playing Nethack since sometimes, haven't yet gone after level 6 or 7, and i still got some basic questions which maybe someone could answer ;) Sorry for those basic questions :) -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC) Starvation * how do you avoid starving to death? I usually play a wizard, and i often feel like i'm gonna die of starvation. So i often rush without letting time to resplenish my mana or hp -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC) :It's hard to tell why you're starving without observing you play, but there are a few possibilities. Firstly, are you eating monster corpses? They're probably the most important food source in the dungeon. Just be careful of poisonous and other dangerous corpses (see the article linked above for more info). :Spellcasting also consumes nutrition, making you more hungry. For Wizards, though, this effect is reduced or eliminated if your intelligence is high enough (see hungerless casting). :Also, if you're really in a tight spot, praying to your god might result in a full belly. This should be unnecessary, though, and makes it harder to use prayer to escape other sticky situations. -- Killian 01:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC) :If playing as a wizard, collect and throw daggers at your enemies. Avoid using your mana because, as Killian already pointed out, consumes nutrition. ZeroOne 13:05, 11 December 2006 (UTC) : Try to restart your wizard till he has a ring of slow digestion at the start or.. wish for a blessed ring of slow digestion (in my current game i did this for my monk, but were unlucky later in the game when masses of soldiers from a barrack kept zapping me with wands of lightning, one destroyed my ring, but i made them pay for that ;) ) Jin Tsu 01:09, 04 March 2007 : A much easier and more ethical solution to Jin's is just to be careful about using rings, as they cause additional hunger. Rings of regeneration especially tend to create hunger problems. Just remember though, reroll scumming is BAD! Spellbooks * what is the point of reading a spellbook again and again? -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC) :Spells that you know at the start of the game, or learn from a spellbook, only last 20000 turns. (For reference, a typical ascension might take 40000-80000.) After this time, you will forget the spell, and you'll need to read the spellbook again to be able to continue casting it. -- Killian 02:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC) Hidden doors * how do you figure where there are hidden doors, without magic mapping? -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC) :For low-level characters, searching and kicking (or force bolt) are the main ways of discovering hidden doors. Note that searching will only find doors adjacent to you (and won't always succeed), and kick and force bolt essentially require you to already know where the door is (which is quite often the case). Kicking an ordinary wall will hurt your leg. :You can also apply a stethoscope to walls, if you have one. This is guaranteed to find a secret door if you apply it to the correct square (proveded it's not cursed), making it much faster than searching. :A wand of secret door detection is perfect for the task, but is largely unnecessary, and you won't always have one. I've never used one outside of Moloch's Sanctum and the Elemental Planes. -- Killian 02:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC) Dungeon and experience levels * what level should one at eg dungeon depth 5? 10? -- Poppu 23:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC) :There's no simple answer to this one. I generally find that if I clear out each level before descending, and run away when necessary, I'm ready to handle each dungeon level I encounter. -- Killian 02:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC) :Experience level 10 is way too high at dungeon level 5 -- you'd probably run into resource issues (not having enough food, for example). Common wisdom suggests keeping your experience level and your dungeon level about the same until (I'd say) 2 or 3. After that you don't level up quickly enough to warrant staying on a level for too long. Killian's advice is pretty sound though - descend after you've explored the current level. --Eidolos 03:27, 11 December 2006 (UTC) Thanks everyone for all the suggestions :) I'll try to use those advices :) I do eat corpses when i can, but sometimes it's hard anyway ;) ::It's a good question; there's more here than the answers indicate. The higher your level, the harder the monsters generally will be. But hard monsters also are only found on lower levels. Getting properly prepared for lower levels is important; getting your intrinsics, like poison resistance so you can deal with killer bees and ants without losing your strength. ::At level 5, I like to be at level 5 or so, but level 3-7 is ok, too. By level 10; I'm seeking better armor and intrinsics, not increasing my own level. I actually try to avoid increasing my own level as long as possible, by letting my pet kill things, instead of myself. Poppu 22:30, 11 December 2006 (UTC) Losing one of the Ritual items * I just defeated the Wizard of Yendor, but I can't find The Book of the Dead. Isn't he supposed to drop it? I'm afraid he might've thrown it into the moat when he saw he was losing. :Is it possible that he teleported away, and you only think that he's dead? I don't think it's likely that it's in the moat. Try drinking a potion of object detection, or cast detect treasure. If you can't, though, you can get items from underwater a few ways: :*polymorph into a swimming or nonbreathing monster, and jump in! :*apply a grappling hook at the water. Careful! you might get dragged in. :*Fill the moat with a boulder or freeze it, then dig pits in its place. I think water may rush in to fill the hole if there are water-filled spaces nearby, so be careful. :*zap a wand of teleport. This will move items out of the moat, but there's no telling where they will go. Maybe even back into the moat! ::Well, it's not in the moat... Can he cast Double Trouble more than once per appearance? Maybe he just keeps cloning and teleporting away. I killed the one that stole my quest artifact, though... I thought he'd be the one to have it. Supposing he's teleported away, he's no longer on the level. How do I find him now? :::He can cast Double Trouble all he wants, except when there are already two of him. (That is, there's no Triple Trouble, all praise be to the DevTeam.) If he's no longer on the level, try the one above you.--Ray Chason 18:12, 14 January 2007 (UTC) ::::Are you sure of no triple trouble Ray ? I remember a game with more than two of that nasty guy, but that could have been an older game version. .--Jin Tsu Getting through levels when there are no staircases I have played the game, on my new computer using Vulcan's, with 7 characters. 3 of them had a YASD (starvation the first time, hitting a floating eye the second time, drinking an unidentified potion the third time). The other 4 got stuck between dungon levels 2 and 4. On any of these dungon levels (2, 3 or 4), there is a possibility that there is no obviously visable staircase. It always happens by level 4. I don't have any equipment to search and cannot magic map (and no, I am not starting as a tourist to magic map). I know that the staircase is hidden (there were no boulders on one of them, so its not by that). There must be a hidden door somewhere. Unfortunatly, searching takes up too much time, and I eventually have to quit and give up. I cannot get past this problem. Any suggestions, or is something seriously wrong? Dylnuge 16:35, 14 January 2007 (UTC) :If you get tired of searching once at a time, you can activate it a number of times with a single command. Just press "n 100 s" to search 100 times, or whatever number you want. Just be careful you don't get killed while searching. 879(CoDe) 17:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC) :Indeed there must be staircases. As far as I know, no objects can be generated to top of them, so they can't be hiding under objects. Just search for the secret door. Guesstimate where some room(s) might fit and search along the walls closest to that seemingly empty space. I usually walk along the walls and hit s some five times at each position. It doesn't really take that much time because you'll soon learn to see, where the secret doors probably are. -ZeroOne 18:06, 14 January 2007 (UTC) ::It happened on level 1, this time. There were no staircases and I searched everywhere for a hidden door (as there was only two possible places) before climbing the stairs out. :::In general, it is sufficient to search two or three times along every section of wall and five or six times at the end of a corridor. (You don't need to search as much along walls if you do it one square at a time since you also search diagonally.) Be aware that you will need to search both dungeon room walls and dead-end corridors, but you don't need to search the middle of a corridor, since thankfully corridors will never unexpectedly T. When you say that there were only two possible places for a hidden door, I highly suspect you are not searching dungeon walls, since almost any wall can potentially be a hidden door. --Mogri 19:52, 15 January 2007 (UTC) :::Next time that happens post a picture of the level in question somewhere and we'll try to guess the location of the secret door for you. --ZeroOne 20:54, 15 January 2007 (UTC) :::Corridors actually do "unexpectedly" T sometimes, although it's usually not too bad to tell where they do once you get the hang of it." Lotte 06:38, 16 January 2007 (UTC) :::OK, I know it has been a vere very long time since I last played, but here is a picture of this level. (Just a note, my character is standing on a staircase down, however, this staircase leads into a branch (Gnomish Mines)) Dylnuge 14:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC) ::::I see large empty areas at top center and bottom right, and a smaller one at top left. You might try searching walls and corridors facing those areas. Telepathy or a ring of warning can also help: detecting monsters in the corridors in unmapped areas can reveal the location of a secret door. If nothing else, you can descend into the Mines and try to find a pick-axe, with which you can dig into unmapped areas, or dig to the next level and then look for the up''stairs. ::::Oh, and is that a teleporter in the center left room? If it is, try stepping on it a few times and you may end up in an unmapped part of the level. Be prepared to fight. Also, that appears to be a vault teleporter in the corridor above the bottom center room. If you use it, maybe the guard will lead you to a new room. Make sure you drop all your gold if you mean to keep it, including any you have hidden in bags.--Ray Chason 16:57, 10 July 2007 (UTC) :::::Those are both boulders...I guess they don't look like an `, but they are. I will check the open spaces...failing that, finding a pickaxe in the mines is also fine. Converting to Unaligned/Moloch Is it possible to convert your alignment to unaligned?--Edrobot 14:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC) :It would be funny, but no. Considering Moloch already has the Amulet and the point of the game is to steal it from him, it would probably be a game over if you did convert. --Mogri 16:32, 25 January 2007 (UTC) Taming the Horsemen How do you tame the 3 horsemen in the astral plane? Assume you're in wizard mode.--Edrobot 14:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC) :To tame Pestilence and Famine, level drain them (typically with Stormy or the Staff) until charm monster or a scroll of taming wins them over. Death is immune to level drain and I think he can't be tamed, but I'm not positive on this. --Mogri 21:14, 29 January 2007 (UTC) ::If you're already in wizard mode, you can just ^G tame death and there you go. But then the Death on the Astral Plane is still there, so I guess that doesn't exactly answer your question. Lots of Pets If you have a lot of pets, how do you get them all down a staircase? What about the one-way staircase to the astral plane?--Edrobot 14:16, 29 January 2007 (UTC) :Take down as many as you can, wait until they move away from you, then go back up and repeat. A leash is strongly recommended when taking pets through the portals (not staircases) in the Elemental Planes. --66.23.133.52 18:59, 30 January 2007 (UTC) ::The maximum number of pets that can be taken up the DL1 stairs and through the portals is 11 -- eight pets adjacent to you, two pets on a leash (you can hold a maximum of two leashes) and one ridable pet on your location (being ridden)--134.76.217.135 11:21, 11 February 2008 (UTC) Medusa's gaze attack I know most gaze attacks depend on mutual sight. Does Medusa's gaze attack work when she is blind? Mythologically speaking, it was her ugly mug, not her eyes, that caused petrification. --66.23.133.52 19:09, 30 January 2007 (UTC) :If Medusa is blind, you get the message "Medusa gazes ineffectually." I guess the NetHack Medusa is not exactly the Greek Medusa. :) --Eidolos 05:45, 9 February 2007 (UTC) IBM Graphics Set I like the default IBM Graphics set in the Windows port, but want to change a couple of characters in the dungeon list. The defualt values are listed as \ |--------||.-|++##.##<><>_\\#{}.}..##\ #} in opthelp, but this is for the basic ASCII set so if I list this in the config files I lose the nice solid walls and shaded floors. Does anyone know the IBM defults so I can just change the ones I want? --Canageek 23:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC) :If you look in your defaults.nh file, you'll find a block that looks like this: #DUNGEON= 032 179 196 218 191 192 217 197 193 194 \ # 180 195 249 239 239 254 254 240 241 249 \ # 177 177 060 062 060 062 220 124 190 035 \ # 244 247 249 247 042 042 186 205 046 035 \ # 247 :Remove the # signs and this block will determine your dungeon symbols. You can change the numbers and get different symbols. :Do you see fountains as , , or some other symbol? If , you can use code page 437 to find some appropriate symbols; if , you can use code page 850. If you see some other symbol, check the IBMgraphics article for further help; but as your user name seems to imply that you're in Canada, you'll probably see either or . :The answer to this question perhaps deserves its own article. -- Ray Chason 22:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC) ::Thank you very much, I didn't know which code page was used. It was code page 437. I'll post up the options I chose in case anyone else wants to give them a try: #DUNGEON= 032 179 196 218 191 192 217 197 193 194 \ # 180 195 250 254 254 043 043 240 241 250 \ # 177 177 060 062 060 062 227 127 234 232 \ # 157 247 250 247 042 042 186 205 046 035 \ # 247 ::--Canageek 00:14, 1 March 2007 (UTC) Here's a nice set -- AngleWyrm 11:47 15 November 2007 (GMT-8) # --|Dungeon Settings|------------------------------------ OPTIONS=boulder:0 DUNGEON= 032 186 205 201 187 200 188 206 202 203 185 204 \ 249 239 239 240 240 \ 227 157 \ 250 176 178 174 175 243 242 \ 002 127 001 236 237 \ 244 247 249 015 \ 186 205 186 205 \ 249 236 126 Unicorn Horns Does enchanting unicorn horns increase their chances of healing an ailment? or is the B/U/C status the only thing that affects this? 206.116.28.142 21:07, 1 March 2007 (UTC) :In vanilla Nethack, enchantment does not matter, only blessed/uncursed/cursed status; enchantment is only relevant if you're using the horn as a weapon. In Slashem, both status and enchantment matter (the former effecting the number of ailments healed per use, the latter effecting the chances of success). ::Considering how useful they are, it's a good idea if you have a blessed horn because it makes it much harder for enemies to curse it. This only really applies below Medusa level when you start meeting the larger types of lich and demons. Applying a 'cursed' unicorn horn to yourself will give you one of the status bar effects, rather than taking it away, which can be very nasty. --Eucarya Talk 12:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC) Who is Maud? Who is this "Maud" scrolls of amnesia keep mentioning? Is it Maud Flanders from "The Simpsons?" --Edrobot 19:56, 26 March 2007 (UTC) :Hack predates the Simpsons by about 3 years, even counting the shorts from ''The Tracey Ullman Show, and "Maud" is already present in Hack 1.0. So no, I don't think so. If you use the '/' command to inquire about Maud, you'll find a more likely explanation.--Ray Chason 16:37, 29 March 2007 (UTC) :The name is based of a Tennyson poem. Check out the Scroll of amnesia page for more details. Dylnuge 23:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC) Nogund Spyware? When I downloaded Nogund, my AOL spyware protection thing went off the hook! for months it insisted that there was spyware on the computer. it eventually went away, but untill then, it kept on mentioning "Ezula". We don't use AOL anymore, but I'm too scarred to download Nogund agian. What happened?--72.88.221.94 19:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC) Try submitting whatever it was that you downloaded to Virustotal if it can fit within the max upload size, should easily do. It could help you make a more informed decision since most antiviruses worth their salt can detect potentially unpopular software (Pups). It was most likely a a false positive.--A Passing Visitor68.237.248.26 04:44, 10 April 2007 (UTC) Beating demons and other queries I've reached Gehennom for the first time, and I'm struggling a bit with the big demons. I've beaten Jubilex (thankyou wikihack for the tip about the wand of digging), Asmodeus and paid off Baalzebub. But they seem to take ages, and unless I can get them onto a level with teleport restriction, I don't seem to be able to hit them enough for it to matter, they just teleport near me, summon some nasties or hit me, and let me get one or two hits in before they teleport away. I'm worried that Demogorgon's going to turn up and it'll be all over very quickly. I've also got problems in that I fell through a hole a couple of times and now don't know the way back up - should I use the Orb of Fate to get me back to the Valley and then go down again? Some other questions: * I accidentally summoned a whole bunch of disenchanters (reverse genocide, oops). This wasn't too much of a problem, I just teleported away and took off anything that I didn't want disenchanted, then went back and beat them up with no armour and weapon. BUT, it appears that my native AC that I'd spent ages improving with the help of a priest (donating money to temple) returned to normal. Was this the disenchanter's effect? * Can I donate to a priest of Moloch to improve my native AC, or will this just anger my god? I only have access to 4 altars in the game - level 1, minetown, level 11, and valley of the dead, making treks between them annoying. * If I put scrolls and potions in a bag, will they be affected if I step on a fire trap? * I've got a choice of artifacts to bash things with in Gehennom - +1 rustproof sunsword, Mjollnir, very rusty demonbane, trollsbane, and ogresmasher. Which? * What should I use my magic markers for? I've genocided most of the big nasties (mind flayers, all liches (L), all rust monsters and disenchanters ®, all sea-types like kraken (;)). What scrolls do I write and why? * What should I wish for and should I do it now? I have 2 wishes left in my wand of wishing, plus a recharge of the wand to come. I have +4 GDSM, +1 SDSM, a couple of blessed scrolls of charging, all useful rings except conflict, plenty of holy water, +1 boots of speed, +2 shield of reflection. Most of the rest of my armour is ok, but nothing special. Current AC of -17 so it's not overly low, but I'm surviving well enough cos my healing rate is frankly amazing. I need better armour (rustproof,fireproof, etc), but might need wands too (don't have cancellation, death, or secret door detection, I've also only got 1 wand of polymorph with 7 charges left). --Eucarya Talk 09:21, 24 April 2007 (UTC) :*To beat a named demon (and certain other monsters) the key is to note where they go when they teleport, and control that spot. :*Demogorgon is scary and deadly, but he's also rarely seen. He doesn't just appear; he has to be summoned, usually by Orcus. He respects Elbereth. If you do see him, you might try using the Orb of Fate to return to the main dungeon where you can pray. ::*I might just go up anyway, having fallen all the way through Orcus town, I don't know where the up stairs is on that level, both Orcus and Yeenoghu are on that level so I don't like the idea of going up to battle both of them. :*Disenchanters don't affect your divine protection. Did you anger your god, or put on a helm of opposite alignment? ::* Yes, I annoyed my god by sacrificing the wrong thing at one stage, was probably that that did it. :*You can donate to any peaceful priest with an altar, even a priest of Moloch. P.S. Have you found Fort Ludios? ::* Yes, I've found Fort Ludios, luckily on the same level as I have my (one and only) altar in the main dungeon - level 11. It's cleared out and I spent the cash on raising my native AC only to have it taken away, as above. :*Bags do protect your stuff from fire. :** Superb. :*Mjollnir packs a punch, but has the bad habit of destroying wands and rings in the monster's inventory. Sunsword will give you some light, though a lamp has greater range. The Banes are pretty much useless except as swag, to add to your score when you ascend. ::* I'll stick with sunsword for now, it's blessed +1 rustproof, whereas I have no combat skill in warhammer. :*I'd say save your magic markers and wishes for an emergency. You seem to be quite well equipped. :Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.--Ray Chason 14:14, 24 April 2007 (UTC) ::Will do --Eucarya Talk 15:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC) 3.4.3 3075416 1 51 51 -16 216 2 20070425 20070421 1 Val Hum Fem Neu Purity,killed by the invisible high priest of Moloch Shucks, got double troubled at the altar --Eucarya Talk 23:13, 25 April 2007 (UTC) Update: Many many thanks to this wiki and it's spoilery goodness, I just completed my first ascension! As a tourist!! Couldn't have done it without all the help from this site, so thanks again! --Eucarya Talk 23:41, 25 August 2007 (UTC) Peaceful Monsters by Alignment How does your alignment affect whether monsters you find are peaceful? I mostly play Lawful characters, and most of the tengus and all the Aleaxes and Couatls I find are peaceful, but most of the giants aren't. Does the chance to be peaceful depend on the monster's difficulty level? Also, what about the Mines? I know if you're a dwarf or gnome, all the dwarves and gnomes will be peaceful, but what about lawful or neutral humans? What about the hobbits in the Mines? --66.23.133.52 02:53, 22 May 2007 (UTC) : The best answer, to the these questions, comes from the source code. The crucial file seems to be makemon.c (especially the peace_minded function). However, answers to questions about race are in role.c, the const struct Race races[] array. (The definition for struct Race is in you.h.) For a human player, all gnomes and orcs will be hostile. The fact that your human is lawful, or neutral, or chaotic has no effect. : (For an elf player, all elves will be peaceful, but all orcs will be hostile. For a dwarf player, all dwarves and gnomes will be peaceful, but all orcs will be hostile. For a gnome player, all dwarves and gnomes will be peaceful, but all humans will be hostile. For an orc player, all humans and elves and dwaves will be hostile.) : In other cases, your alignment (lawful, neutral, chaotic) becomes important. The cross-aligned monsters that you find will be hostile, but the co-aligned monsters have a random chance of being peaceful. For a lawful hero, some tengus and giants may be peaceful, as you observed. However, the tengu has a monster alignment of 7, while the giant has the monster alignment of 2. (A positive monster alignment is lawful, while a negative monster alignment is chaotic, and all neutral monsters have alignment 0.) The tengu is actually more lawful than the giant, so the tengu is more likely to be peaceful to lawful heroes, as you observed. As far as I can tell, the difficulty level actually has no effect here. (A hobbit has a monster alignment of 6, so have your lawful heroes been encountering peaceful hobbits?) : Your alignment record also has an effect. A better alignment record improves the chance of peaceful monsters. If you have "strayed" (or "sinned" or "transgressed"), then all of the coaligned monsters will be peaceful. : NetHack has numerous exceptions to the above rules. This is why the shopkeepers are peaceful, but the killer bees from kicking a tree are hostile. One of the exceptions is for monsters that are minions of a god, like Aleaxes or couatls. These are always peaceful to heroes of the same alignment. --Kernigh 18:17, 4 July 2007 (UTC) Oh crap triple rothe... what to do??? :It's hard to say without some details. Are you surrounded? Is there a convenient staircase nearby? Can you withdraw into a corridor? Got any wands? If some are unidentified, sometimes you might get lucky by trying one.--Ray Chason 21:45, 30 July 2007 (UTC) ::Also, Elbereth may save you (just learning this lesson m'self!). --Snicker 22:56, 30 July 2007 (UTC) :::This is a meme in a certain NetHack channel. :) --75.67.53.71 00:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC) Detect Treasure spell Has anyone else noticed that sometimes the "Detect Treasure" spell shows things that aren't there? For example, I'll see some coins embedded in stone, dig all the way there, only to find nothing?! What's with that? --Snicker 02:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC) :* Treasures detected by the spell are always real. If the gold/gem symbol suddenly disappears when you get to the marked spot, it means that the items are buried in the floor. Just dig a pit (apply a pickaxe down by choosing ">" as the direction you want to dig in) and you'll find the stuff. --217.95.112.205 12:19, 8 August 2007 (UTC) While I'm asking questions.... are "Master Mind Flayers" immune to charm monster? I'm trying to re-tame my pet, and all he's doing is eating my brain. Thank Anhur for blessed unicorn horns, but I still need a way to retame or defeat him. --Snicker 04:26, 1 August 2007 (UTC) :Nevermind - answered that one through sheer determination. Took 20 casts, but I retamed him. Also lost 15 points of INT and the maps to every level, and all ID'd items *LOL* --Snicker 05:16, 1 August 2007 (UTC) :Charm monster (and scrolls of taming) are subject to a monster's percentile magic resistance, and master mind flayers have a lot of it. Taming by either method also fails if your level is not higher than the monster's. --66.23.133.55 18:23, 8 August 2007 (UTC) Wizard magic resistance Do wizards have special magic resistance? Even naked, I can't use polymorph or teleport traps (making Fort Ludios inaccessible, I believe...) --Snicker 22:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC) :Wizards don't have any intrinsic magic resistance, but some quest artifacts do confer magic resistance when you're just carrying them. One example is The Eye of the Aethiopica, the Wizard quest artifact, which you probably have if you're thinking about Fort Ludios. --Andronikus 05:41, 11 August 2007 (UTC) :Are you wielding Magicbane? That also give magic resistance. Magic portals (which you use to enter Fort Ludios and the Quest) ignore magic resistance, so don't worry there. --66.23.133.55 02:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC) :: (Answered) All of the above. Magic Resistance was preventing the teleports from porting me into the vaults, but I don't think the magic portal for Ludios was created. I was not able to locate it, despite spoilers, clairvoyance and lots of dig wands. Thanks for the answers! My dog is attacking me!! I don't know why, I was reading this turquoise spellbook, then I was blinded, then my dog started to attack me! It still says it's tame. Any idea what's going on, or how to fix this? :It sounds like your dog has become crazed with hunger, in which case it can attack you (try leaving food around, when it's hungry, it's less fussy about what it eats). Otherwise, you may have gained either aggravate monster intrinsic or are using conflict in some way - did you put on an unidentified ring recently? --Eucarya Talk 23:44, 25 August 2007 (UTC) Shopkeeper Attack! I've just been killed by an angry shopkeeper, and I don't know why he was angry. Here are the facts: *I had never entered the shop, nor even stepped onto the shop door, although the door was open. *This was a bones level from a game I played myself several months ago. As far as I remember, the previous character did not anger the shopkeeper, and died a perfectly ordinary death (overwhelmed by some monsters). *The headstone and "bones pile" were outside the shop, but close to it (either diagonally adjacent or a knight's jump from the door). *I was not causing conflict, had not thrown or kicked anything, had not cast any spells that would have upset the shopkeeper. *I absent-mindedly attempted to identify some gems from the bones pile via #engrave on the headstone. I got the "You disturb the undead!" message, and killed the hostile ghoul that appeared in a few turns. This is the only notable action I took in the turns immediately preceding my death, but I don't understand why it would have upset the shopkeeper. I thought maybe I gained "aggravate monster", but neither the aggravate monster nor headstone pages mention anything about gaining AM under these circumstances; and in any case, aggrivate monster would not cause peaceful monsters to become hostile, right? *A turn or two after dispatching the ghoul, I witnessed the shopkeeper wield a weapon, suggesting that he had only recently become hostile. A turn later he attacked and I was dead. He obviously had to leave his shop to get to me. I'm pretty sure I got the " takes all of your posessions" message. I also got a message I'd never seen before -- something about the shopkeeper looking down at my body and shaking his head. Any ideas on what caused this? Alternately, is there a list of all possible ways to anger a shopkeeper around? : Kernigh writes: I never saw the shaking-his-head message before. I had to check the source code, and it seems that the message indicates that a second shopkeeper tried to inherit your stuff, but the first shopkeeper already took everything. More than one shopkeeper was after you! The second shopkeeper might not have been nearby. I updated the shopkeeper page with an explanation of that messages. I still do not understand why the shopkeepers were angry; I do not think that "aggravate monster" nor your actions with the headstone could cause it. --Kernigh 01:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC) : Bones file shopkeepers will be angry at your character if they were stolen from in the previous game by a character with the same name as the current one. --JohnH 01:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC) Healing Hit Points I've only made it as far as Mine Town once or twice, so please be gentle. After I get in a fight and take some damage, I find it hard to heal. There's no "rest" command in NetHack (like there are in the *bands). I can go stand somewhere and do a 20. or whatever multiple times. But the docs say that standing doesn't heal you any faster than moving about and doing other stuff. Of course, I tend to find that healing leads to hunger...so I'm walking around with half my hit points looking for food. Something I'm doing wrong? I haven't seen a single potion of healing yet, though I have seen quite a few unidentified ones...I've read that testing potions by drinking them is unwise - is that true early on? Very common in *bands, because the worst that could happen was temporary blindness (at least in the early levels). Thanks. : Kernigh writes: Before I learned about the "rest" command in ToME, I would actually walk around to heal, like I do in NetHack! When I need to heal, sometimes I take the staircases up to shallower dungeon levels. Sometimes I go as far as Dlvl 1. NetHack tends to spawn easier monsters on shallower levels, and that may save my life if I had low hit points. : While healing, I sometimes pass the time with exercises such as repeatedly opening and closing a door, or pushing a boulder back and forth. : You might not be eating enough food. In the *bands, you could recall to town and buy more food rations or scrolls of satisfy hunger. In NetHack, you must search for food. Are you eating corpses? Corpses are an important source of food, but you have to learn which corpse is safe to eat. By eating corpses, you can save your food rations for later. (I tried this strategy in ToME and died by eating a green icky thing.) : Try to reach Sokoban, a dungeon branch that tends to have more food. You would need to go down the main dungeon (not the Gnomish Mines) to the level below the Oracle level, then take the other staircase up to reach Sokoban. This is easier if your game has the Oracle at a shallower level. : You start with a pet. Have your pet fight and kill some of the tougher monsters, so that you do not take as much damage and do not have to heal so many times. --Kernigh 02:08, 6 September 2007 (UTC) : Also, if you have some food and a key/lock pick, you can go to a room that still has its door(s), lock them, and wait there until you're healed up enough to go on. (while some monsters will open closed doors, they won't open locked ones, so all you have to worry about are teleporting ones and ones who can dig through walls). So while it's tempting to kick down all the doors to exercise your stats, occasionally leaving some around can be useful. --Enehta 18:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC) Pet Concern? I just got the message "you feel worried about your kitten", Never gotten or heard of it before, does anyone know what it means? Thanks Vantar 01:07, 8 September 2007 (UTC) :Your pet is hungry and you cannot see your pet (see dogmove.c#line235). Addps4cat 12:46, 8 September 2007 (UTC) Monster HP? I've been browsing this site for a while, but I've never once found any mention of the amount of hp a monster has. Is there any way to determine this? Is there a page I missed? -Vandalier (My user name when I finally get around to registering >_>) :So far all I've found on monster HP is at makemon.c#line917-940. : To summarize my findings: :Golems are hard coded makemon.c#line1541: : :I use D notation in case you aren't familiar. :Riders (Death, Famine, and Pestilence) have 10d8 hits. :Super demons w/ lvl>=50 ::(Jubilex (lvl 50), Yeenoghu (lvl 56), Orcus (lvl 66), Dispater (78), Baalzebub (lvl 89), Asmodeus (lvl 105), Demogorgon (lvl 106)) ::HP = 2*(mlevel - 6) (mtmp->mhpmax = mtmp->mhp = 2*(ptr->mlevel - 6);) ::lvl is then scaled down: lvl = hp/4 :: :The Wizard of Yendor starts at 30d8 and every time you kill him gains another hit die up to a maximum of 49d8. :Alright from here on out gets annoyingly complicated. The monster's HP is based on a function called adj_lev() (makemon.c#line1362 and dungeon.c#line1455) which depends on (in order of importance): :*Your dungeon level :*If your level (XL) is greater than the monster's lvl (MLVL) :*If you have the amulet :*If you're in the end game (earth plane or above) :*If your depth (DLVL) is greater than the monster's lvl :I'll just ignore all that with a wave of my hand: ::adj_lev() = 1.5*(MLVL) (grossly inaccurate) :Dragons: ::adult dragons+Ixoth+Chromatic Dragon = 4*23 + 23d4 = 92+23d4 ::Same as above in endgame = 8*22 = 176 :Very weak creatures (think grid bugs) = 1-4 hits :Elementals in their own plane = (12d8)*3 :Everything else = adj_lev()d8 = (1.5*(MLVL))d8 :Yeah so basically it is hard to get exact numbers, or even give a ball park because it depends on so many factors. Hope this helps. :Addps4cat 20:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC) Wow, that helped explain things ALOT. I had no idea HP was such a complicated variable. I just assumed it was a static value like in most other games. Thanks for explaining it to me! Vandalier 8:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC) :Or in game you can use a stethoscope on monsters. This is my favourite tool, especially since it still mostly gives you time to Run Away. :12.77.20.134 00:35, 26 September 2007 (UTC) Longest item name Out of boredom, I attempted to create the item with the longest name ever. I started off with a helm of opposite alignment. Then I rusted and corroded it, then fixed it with a scroll of destroy armor (cursed/confused). If you're in wizard mode you can do even better by getting a +100 enchantment for a final item of: :"an uncursed greased thoroughly corroded thoroughly rusty rustproof +100 helm of opposite alignment" Sadly you can't combine them to get "100 uncursed ...". Can anyone beat that? Addps4cat 18:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC) Preventing unpolymorphing in SLASH'EM? Hello, I'm having trouble with keeping my pets alive, and consequently, myself, in SLASH'EM. In vanilla, I could just use a magic whistle to do the polymorph trap boogie and get some amazing pets. In SLASH'EM, they unpolymorph into the crappy large cats/dogs at the worst possible times. Throwing potions of restore ability (prevents unpolypiling) and having them equip amulets of unchanging don't work either. If there isn't a way to prevent unpolymorphing, how do I get better pets, other than getting lucky with taming items, or throwing food at a chameleon? If I can't get good pets, it's going to be real hard for my atheist genoless no-polyself no-polypiling Archeologist to ascend, compared to vanilla, especially with the tougher monsters in SLASH'EM... 209.51.73.60 20:54, 6 October 2007 (UTC) : Cats/dogs/horses seem more common in SLASH'EM than vanilla, so sometimes I try for more pets instead of better pets. (It does become difficult to move four pets up and down the stairs.) I would like to hear about any better strategy. --Kernigh 14:37, 28 November 2007 (UTC) Chameleon turned Master Lich vs genuine Master Lich Hello fellow nethackers, I have a question - I'm far from being an expert player so take that into account... Anyway, I have just met, what I thought was my nemesis, a Master Lich... it scared the hell out of me - here I am, an Elvl10 wizard at Dlvl7, perfroming some "maintnance work" using some potion shop and my faithful cat when suddenly I'm faced with a monster I think I have never seen before in any previous games... the bad thing is that I had lost my magic-resistance cloak by forgetting to take it off before polymorphing into a Xorn - I thought that would help in Sokoban, now I know it doesn't ;]... So, I'm standing there, after having suffered a single attack from this mighty violet "L" which took half my HPs and I'm thinking "ok, so this is it, I'm going to die here" and trying not to panick, I figure the best thing to do considering my heavy but not necessarily most useful knapsack contents ... ok, I have a few wands with me... I consider for a second the one that I think I semi-identified (forgot to do more) as either /oDeath or /oSleep... But then, I had recently died of an ill-targeted ray of death so I rule out this possibility, I have /oDigging so I keep that option in my mind but I also have a /oPolymorph... I can't find anything here about Liches having magic resistance or other reflection stuff, so, wth, I just zap the /oPolymorph at the Lich... Immediately, it turns to an ape which I finish with a few quick quarterstaff hits... But then, when I move towards a corpse I find that what's lying there is not an ape corpse but a chameleon corpse... So, here comes the question - was what I've done a viable tactics against an ML or was it that easy just because it was, apparently, not a genuine ML but a chameleon impersonating one? thanks in advance... - Blueshade 12:52, 28 November 2007 (UTC) ps. btw, this is vanilla 3.4, if that matters in any way... "You lack the energy to send forth a call for help!" What the heck does that mean? I get this after turning into a wererat, when trying to "#monster"... What kind of energy do I need? I am satiated and fully healed... Only magical power is not very high... Maybe my ExpLvl is the problem?... thanks in advance, Blueshade 13:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC) :Yep, you've got it. Summoning help uses power points, and quite a lot of them I believe. --Andronikus 13:09, 29 November 2007 (UTC) :: Thanks :)... i'll try waiting until my power goes back to full and see if I can summon then... if not, i'll #pray and hope Hermes is kind enough to rid me of the thing... anyway, I think something along the lines of what you say, should go into the lycanthropy article... - Blueshade 14:26, 29 November 2007 (UTC) Figuring out what I genocided So, after playing way too much Nethack in the past few weeks, I find myself in a position where I have a blessed scroll of genocide, and can't remember what I've already genocided in this game (as opposed to last week's character, or yesterday's character...) Is there any way to check, besides dying? enehta 21:01, 09 December 2007 :Not that I know of. I keep notes, either in a text file or through #name'ing an object I expect to hold onto (like my BoH) - Javelin A few polypiling and praying questions *Which tools (besides the unicorn horns) are considered magical and thus might be able to become magic markers? Are there similar issues with magical armor (e.g. gauntlets of fumbling vs. gloves), beyond the issues with enchantments? **And I've found a lovely link which answers my question: http://www.nethack.de/spoiler330/magic_items.txt *While I'm on the polymorphing question, would there be any particular problem to polymorphing an artifact (namely Grimtooth, which as a neutral priest I have no desire for) **A quick wizard mode test indicates that artifacts (I tested Grimtooth, Sting, and Stormy) are immune to polymorphing. So, you can either drop Grimtooth, or since it's fairly light you can keep it around for extra points at the end of the game. --Andronikus 12:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC) *With the one altar-prayer outcome of the god blessing your weapon, will it bless an object that isn't a weapon but is wielded? (I can't tell whether I'm just unlucky or it won't do it and I should stop trying) ** Nope, the game specifically checks whether the wielded item is a weapon or weapon-tool. -- Killian 13:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC) *And along the am-I-just-unlucky lines, is it at all possible to polymorph armor into a robe? You don't want to know how long I've been trying, especially given my current 84% failure rate (without wearing any metal) for casting polymorph... Yeah, I suppose I should just get on with the game, but... --Enehta 07:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC) ** I believe it's technically possible, but since the chances of obtaining magical armour from polymorph are so tiny, and robes themselves are pretty rare, it's unlikely to be worth the effort. -- Killian 13:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC) Dungeon stalemate I am finding that on some generations of the dungeon, on the first level or two, I don't have any way to get to the next level down. Is there something I'm missing? Like a way to find secret passages? I usually end up quitting and starting again, but it's kind of bothersome. :If you can't find the downstairs, there are usually two possible explanations. One is simply that the stairs are hidden under some visible object, in which case you should check each square with items on it. The other is that they are located in a room you haven't found yet, in which case you might need to use the search command to locate an entrance to the room. -- Killian 13:34, 26 December 2007 (UTC) Excalibur + Invisibility Does wielding Excalibur negate invisibility? It mentions that monsters will still be able to find you, but it's not very clear as to whether that's just blind monsters or any sort of camouflaging effect.--Xazak 17:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC) :: My invisible valkyrie with Excalibur wielded is still having monsters whiff and strike at thin air. Make sure you are not wearing a mummy wrapping. Also keep in mind that once you stand adjacent to (or attack) a monster, it will have an easier time locating you, so move around and soften 'em up with daggers or pets before they get a bead on you. Stolen "oLS I had an amulet of lifesaving stolen by a wood nymph, who immediately put it on. Is there any way to get the amulet back without killing the nymph in the process? I'm playing a dwarven Valkyrie.--Xazak 18:22, 28 December 2007 (UTC) :Polymorph into a nymph or a foocubus, then steal it from her.--Ray Chason 19:03, 28 December 2007 (UTC) :Or tame another nymph (say, with a Magic harp) and hope it'll steal it from her. (I have no idea whether taming her would get it back). Good luck! --Enehta 05:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC) ::polymorph the nymp into something that can't wear an amulet(ameboid, whirly) or try to give it another amulet to try on(unlikely, since monsters usually id without a scroll, and know relatively how good they are) :The question should simply be "Is there any way to get the amulet back..." - I mean, if you try to kill the nymph, the amulet will save her and crumble to dust, so you cannot obtain it this way... I know you probably know that, I just wanted that to be known to someone else reading this... - blueshade Long Worm Tails Is there any way to "grow" a tail if you're polymorphed into a long worm? #Monster didn't work lol Fredil Yupigo 21:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC) Losing the Book of the Dead? I finally made it to Rodney and zapped him with a Wand of Death while he was over the moat around his room. It looks like the Book of the Dead fell in to the moat and now I can't seem to get it back! I have tried a grappling hook, freezing the moat to ice then digging a pit, and can't find it at all. Help! --Kalon 04:12, 14 January 2008 (UTC) :Turbulence ;) Fredil Yupigo 23:28, 14 January 2008 (UTC) ::This happened to me! I found it down there after wearing an amulet of magical breathing, picking up something heavy, and just jumping in. --Beefnut 11:36, 16 January 2008 (UTC) Oracle Is it possible for the Oracle level to not be generated? I'm already at my Quest and I haven't saw him or Sokoban yet!! Fredil Yupigo 21:29, 21 January 2008 (UTC) :As far as i know, no, and as big as the room in the center is, it's hard to imagine overlooking it. Maybe you fell through a trap door and passed it by? Try climbing back up and seeing if you missed a couple of levels.--Ray Chason 23:47, 21 January 2008 (UTC) ::I find it scary that a hole took me down 4 levels. Thanks :) Fredil Yupigo 01:40, 22 January 2008 (UTC) Rejected with prejudice If you are rejected from your quest for failing the alignment test too much, does a game become unwinnable? Fredil Yupigo 18:42, 27 January 2008 (UTC) : Unfortunately, yes. You need the Bell of Opening to perform the invocation ritual, and this is held by your Quest nemesis. No Quest, no Bell, no opening of the vibrating square, no Amulet of Yendor. --Kalon 01:12, 31 January 2008 (UTC) Old Versions Is there any repository of old versions (executable or sourcecode) of hack? In particular, I'm searching for version 1.01 (as far as I can tell). I (and many others) spent an obscene amount of time playing it on my old 386 PC. We're organizing a classic gaming party and would very much like to revisit this game that so many played and loved. :For each of the 33 public releases of Hack and NetHack, Wikihack has an article such as Hack 1.0.1. Each links to places where you can find the original source, so far as it survives (parts of Hack 1.0 and 1.0.1 are not fully preserved). If you're looking for binaries you can play on a 386 PC, you might be better off using Google.--Ray Chason 04:27, 1 February 2008 (UTC) Most hopeless death So I was on IRC tonight, and we were having some fun chatting. One guy says he's in the mines and has one hp. Then: ; (name clipped) (Wiz Hum Mal Cha), 1136 points, killed by a worthless piece of white glass What's the most pathetic death you've seen? Fredil Yupigo 01:54, 13 March 2008 (UTC)